Transcribed by Beluga AI.
Thank you for the two sisters for your testimonies. It’s always a blessing to hear from the body of Christ. I get ministered to as I listen. We all have different gifts. We all have testimonies. So the more we share, the more we build up and edify the Body of Christ. So praise God for that.
On this Pentecost Sunday, I feel a little bit like Elijah in the Old Testament, 1 Kings 19, when he is tired after experiencing a week of victory, expending all of his energy, and then he’s just wiped out and he’s running from Jezebel. So that’s how I feel today.
So, please bear with me. For the Holy Spirit message. I thought I would ask you what your questions are, and then we’ll just try to address one or two questions and that’ll be the message. Do you have a question about the Holy Spirit?
Because out of the three persons of the Trinity, he is the least understood. And many people in the body of Christ don’t even know today is Pentecost Sunday because they’ve replaced the Holy Spirit with God the Father, God the Son, and God the Bible.
And so I want to answer a question that’s relevant for you, like, who is Holy Spirit? What kind of ministry does he do?
Yeah, so does anyone? Are you bold enough to ask a question and we’ll try to tackle it that way today? Yes, yes, yes. That’s a great question.
If you were to ask me 10, 15 years ago, 20 years ago, or, you know, I’ve been walking with the Lord for over 30 years. If you were to ask me in the beginning, in the first portion of my Christian life, I would just say I was a conservative Christian.
God brought me through some supernatural things that I was not equipped for. Some demonization in the church, some casting out of supernatural things. When we first faced it, I realized. I think I realized that I did not have enough power to address it. But over time, God began to teach me there’s so much more to learn about the person of the Holy Spirit.
And then various healings that happen. The most notable one, well, several. One is I grew up with a lot of indigestion, a lot of headaches. I would just reach for Zantac and Advil, pop them in pretty much daily for decades. Probably ruined my liver during the process. But enduring those type of just low-grade issues.
But then after the Lord, he healed my herniated disc in my back supernaturally one night when he woke me up. And this is after a year and a half of trying acupuncture, physical therapy, all these different treatments. When Jesus showed up and I experienced a supernatural healing, I began to read my Bible differently.
Like my understanding of the Great Commission was Matthew 28: only you just go out and you do missions. You teach and you preach and you teach and disciple, make disciples, teach them to observe everything that the Lord has commanded us to live out.
And I did not know there’s Mark 16. There’s a different version of the Great Commission that you preach to all creation, and you lay on hands, and healings happen, and you cast out demons, and you’re bitten by poisonous snakes, and there’s a supernatural protection. There’s a fearlessness and a boldness that comes when you understand what the Spirit is able to do for a believer.
And I would say now when I read Scripture, I am a true conservative. Meaning a conservative, in the past, I would read the Bible, and any verse that was supernatural, that was related to demons, healings, miracles, faith that can move a mountain, I just kind of glossed over those verses. I know there are demons, I know miracles can happen. But practically, I was not expecting it, and I did not deep down believe it could happen for me. Maybe that was for a past era.
But now, when I read Scripture, I read every verse. This is true for me today because Jesus is the same yesterday, today, forever. I’ve experienced little glimpses of it. I want more of it. More of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, more of the presence of the Holy Spirit. I am a temple of the Holy Spirit.
And now when I read Scripture, I would say I believe everything it says. And so I would redefine myself because conservatives have taken that label, and that’s Bible minus the supernatural. But I want to bring back the supernatural elements of Scripture. So I am a conservative, Charismatic. So that’s my simple answer.
Anybody else?
Anybody else have a question related to the Holy Spirit, the ministry of the Holy Spirit, the person of the Holy Spirit, anything you’ve wondered? Any Scripture you’ve wondered that mentions the Holy Spirit?
Yes, yes. So there’s two passages I think about with, with gifts of the Holy Spirit. One is Ephesians 4. We can read that all together. Ephesians 4, it says in verse 5. We could read verse 4.
4 There is one body and one Spirit just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. 7 But grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift. (Ephesians 4:4-7, ESV)
And so this gift, or charisma, charismata, this gift was given for all believers. It is a sign of our salvation. So I think at least we have one gift. Some may have multiple gifts. Some may have all the gifts that we read about in Scripture, like 1 Corinthians 12 is a list of some of the gifts.
I don’t think that’s an exhaustive list. But we have varying gifts. And how do we know? Well, we have to start exercising it. And if you exercise one or two or three gifts, like if you, if you have a healing gift but you never lay hands on somebody, you’ll never know. But if you’re the kind of person you believe, all the gifts are available to me. And I might have one or two or multiple gifts that are described in 1 Corinthians 12 and elsewhere, you have to exercise them.
Like, how does a teacher know that they have a teaching gift? They have to teach. How do you know if you have a healing gift? You have to lay hands. And do people get consistently healed when you lay hands, as opposed to other people laying on of hands? If you have a prophetic thing that the Lord has given to you, have you been bold enough to declare it? And risk looking like a fool if it doesn’t come to pass? Doesn’t mean you’re not a prophet. Because even Jonah was a prophet.
He declared that Nineveh would be judged. But because of their repentance, God changed his mind. It doesn’t make Jonah a false prophet because the prophecy didn’t get fulfilled.
But we take risks as prophets. We say things and we risk looking like a fool. And some of the things that we declare, it comes to pass. And so in a church, we equip each other to the work of the ministry. We pray for the Holy Spirit to pour out his presence and his gifts.
And in this community, and as we go out into our various spheres of influence, we have to start exercising. Even Paul to Timothy, he says, the gift that was given to you when we laid hands on you, you need to fan it into flame, meaning he was just sitting on it. It was a little bit dormant. It was not being exercised.
So we need to take the gifts that we have. So some of you have an evangelistic gift. And unless the evangelists rise up and say, we are going to do this.
Let’s go evangelize Bellflower. Let’s go evangelize Cerritos. Let’s go evangelize California. Let’s go evangelize America. Let’s go evangelize the ends of the earth. The ones with the evangelistic gift need to step up and say, I have this burden. Maybe you don’t have this burden, but as a body of Christ, we come alongside of you and we say, let’s do this together, and why don’t you lead the way?
If you have a teaching gift, we have to find ways for you to teach. It doesn’t have to be a Sunday preaching, but Bible study, a devotional. There’s ways that teachers who are gifted that way have to exercise a gift. But if you don’t have the pastoral gift, if you don’t have a shepherd’s heart, God can bring crowds of people. But if they have no one to care for them, what’s the point?
We need to care for people, and people need one-on-one attention. So we need pastors. We need people with a shepherd’s heart. That is a gift. And so we need to maybe, as a body of Christ, I would definitely want to sit with people if they think they have it, a particular gift.
Let’s talk about it in our members meeting, in our community group meeting. Let’s explore this. I have in my mind that I would like for us to take some tests to kind of bring out what gifts we may have. And as soon as you say, well, I think I score pretty high in this gift, and then you present it to the people who know you well, they will say, yes, you have it, and let’s start exercising those gifts.
So it takes, I think, just belief that you have at least one or more, and then bringing it up to the body of Christ and say, how can I exercise this gift in this place? And how might I bring it to my workplace, to my neighborhood?
That’s a discussion we can have. And if you’re not sure, I think people who know you well spiritually, we should be able to vouch for one another. Yes, you have this gift. Why don’t we lay hands? Let’s fan this gift into flame.
Because when all the gifts of the body of Christ, like the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, shepherds, and teachers, all the offices, all the gifts are coming together like no one person has it all. No one church has it all.
But in the universal church, if we actually united and banded together more and worked together more, wouldn’t we see a lot more fruit? Wouldn’t we be able to be a lot more effective, light and salt in this world? And so let’s start having these discussions in our small groups.
Okay, anybody else? Anybody else have a question related to the person of the Holy Spirit, ministry of the Holy Spirit, baptism of the Holy Spirit? Caleb. Witnessing people who are baptized in the Holy Spirit. Yes, the Spirit comes in the beginning. I think there’s an Ephesians 1 believer. Let’s look at that together. Ephesians 1:13-14.
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory. (Ephesians 1:13-14, ESV)
And so there’s a beginning sealing of the Holy Spirit. That is God’s signature on you. It is his pledge. It is his down payment. It is a sign of your belonging to the Lord. And that happened at conversion. You were sealed. And I think of it as the engagement ring was put on us. And Jesus is declaring that I will come back for you. We will be married.
And so this is the first installment of the Holy Spirit. And for much of my Christian life, I stopped here. And I think many Christians stop here and they say, well, I’m saved, right? And so that’s good enough. I have the Holy Spirit.
If that’s the case, why is there Ephesians 5, which is a different believer? Ephesians 5:15-21.
15 Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise but as wise, 16 making the best use of the time, because the days are evil. 17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. 18 And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit, 19 addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart, 20 giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, 21 submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ. (Ephesians 5:15-21, ESV)
So if we already have the Holy Spirit, if we already have the seed sealing of the Holy Spirit, the pledge of the Holy Spirit, we are saved in Ephesians 1. Why does he say that we should be filled with the Holy Spirit?
I think it’s a difference between a sprinkle baptism and a baptism by immersion. The symbol is the same, but the practice is so different. Just a little sprinkling of water and thinking, oh, that’s enough. I’m sealed. I’m ready. I’m fine.
There’s a much deeper meaning when you actually go under the water and you come out of the water, and you’re symbolizing a death of your old life, and you’re coming out of the water in the newness of life.
And the baptism of the Holy Spirit is the same, because if you read Acts 2, and, well, the Gospels all the way to Acts 2, the disciples are saved. It seems like they understand a lot of things. They are following Jesus. They’re stumbling. They’re saying good things one day, bad things one day. They’re not really doing much ministry. They’re just watching Jesus do it all, and their heart is hardened. There’s a lot of things they don’t understand. But we would still say they are believers.
And so the sprinkling of the Spirit was present even in John 20. Before Pentecost, Jesus breathed out his spirit. So they had little deposits of the Spirit. Like you can’t understand anything spiritual unless the Spirit is present. And so I would say the disciples, they had the sealing of the Spirit. They had some semblance of salvation that was.
They were evolving and growing into. But you look at them locked up in the upper room, not preaching, not ministering, afraid, fearful. Everything changed with Pentecost, and the Spirit was poured out.
And Peter preaches, and he’s not reading from a manuscript. He’s just inspired by the Spirit. He just opens his mouth, and the Spirit just pours out truth and truth and truth and connects dots from the Old Testament. And this is the Peter that we read about in the Book of Acts. Not perfect. He still has his blind spots. But Peter in the Book of Acts and the disciples in the Gospels have been radically changed.
People say, well, it’s okay to keep sinning, right? And I would say the baptism of the Holy Spirit, what it does it. The Holy Spirit is our helper. So everything that we knew, everything that I knew prior to the baptism in the Holy Spirit, I know much more deeply now.
Peter witnessed the resurrection, but it wasn’t until Pentecost that he had the resurrection faith and the resurrection courage and resurrection power to go out and preach and risk dying for that belief.
So, so it’s a. For me, the primary thing is the helper of the Holy Spirit. He takes what was shallow and surface level, and then he drives it deeper and deeper into our understanding. And now we can live it out more and more. He guides us into all Truth as it says in Scripture. I think in John 16 and elsewhere, he guides us into all truth and not just spiritual truth.
Like if I, if I look at people who believe in the filling of the Holy Spirit versus people who are content with just a sprinkling of the Holy Spirit and how they live out their Christian life, there’s just a world of difference in their understanding of the current events. Just a world of difference.
It’s a, it’s just a guidance of the Holy Spirit, a counseling of the Holy Spirit. He tells you what’s happening in society. He tells you what’s coming down the road in the future. We think differently and for large segments. I was just blind to much of what Scripture says and also much of just life. I didn’t know Satan was the ruler of this world. I didn’t know I was being lied to all the time.
But now, with the baptism of the Holy Spirit, I can actually see things. Things more. I don’t know how I can see it. I didn’t see it before, but now when someone is telling me something, I know they’re lying. I just, right away, in my spirit, oh, they’re lying to me. That, that thing that they said is partially true, but.
And I’m testing the Spirits of what this person is saying, whether they’re Christian or just a person in the news. I just know it’s a lie. And how did I know this? It’s, it’s, it’s a gift of the Holy Spirit.
And I know there is the Charismatics, some of them from. Especially there’s extreme Charismatics, which those from the conservative side are a little bit nervous about. And there is testimonies of baptism of the Holy Spirit. And then people are on the floor and people are rolling around and people are losing control of their body.
I don’t see that in Scripture. And yet they say, oh, this is the Holy Spirit. And these people also say the only sign of the baptism of the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues. And if you don’t speak in tongues, then you’re not saved.
I just disagree with that. Because first of all, that kind of imbalance and mixture of spirits, in my opinion, came from an organization called the New Apostolic Reformation. And they are famous Charismatic preachers who appoint themselves as apostles and their friends as apostles.
And it’s almost like they are elevated to a godlike state because if you have this ability to hear God and you’re this gifted, and we see the signs and it’s miraculous, then it’s almost like you can’t question these people. They must be apostles, and whatever they say must be leveled to the same level as Scripture, because that’s what the apostles were in the Old Testament. In the New Testament, what they said became Scripture.
It’s this type of chaos that makes conservatives say, I want nothing to do with the Holy Spirit. And I understand that. I was also once like them. But the Holy Spirit, in my opinion, doesn’t always have to manifest with tongues because 1 Corinthians 12 says, says it’s only one of the gifts. And your gift may not be as impressive as a word of knowledge or as healing, but it’s the gift nonetheless from the Holy Spirit. Teaching is also a gift.
But that might not seem as impressive as some of the other gifts. The abuses and the chaos that certain extreme forms of the Charismatic church have introduced into the body of Christ are concerning. I think we should be watchful of the baptismal Holy Spirit that I see.
The manifestation of that in Ephesians 5 is you speak differently. You speak differently to other people. There’s a joyfulness and there’s a gentleness in our speech. There’s a reverence as a pastor can submit themselves to a church member, a husband can submit themselves under a wife.
Even though there is spiritual order, this is something that Holy Spirit gifts in us and enables us to do. And so if we can be very gifted, the whole book of Corinthians is filled with very supernaturally gifted leaders.
Look at the fruit of the Corinthian church: chaos and people saying, my leader is better than your leader. I follow Cephas, I follow Apollos, I follow Jesus, I follow Paul. And there’s no love in this church. It’s just beating people over the head with their gift. That’s not.
The gifts are given so that we can love one another better for the sake of the common good, for the building up of the body of Christ. It is for us to change our speech when we speak. It is for us to be able to submit to one another. This is a spirit-generated humility.
And so to me, these are manifestations of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. In the beginning, when I only thought I had what I needed at conversion, as I leaned in more and I pray every day, as Jesus commanded, for the filling of the Holy Spirit and for God to send the gift of the Holy Spirit. Now some of these things that I didn’t realize were available to me, now I can live it out much more consistently.
Anything else related to the Holy Spirit, gifts of the Holy Spirit, baptism of the Holy Spirit, anything? Yes, or even in act. And so there was a gas when the Holy Spirit was be baptized with the Holy Spirit. Not anything from now. But then the Holy Spirit was here. But then he said, there’s going to be a special baptizing for the Holy Spirit.
So within that time, the Holy Spirit was ready. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yep. Great question. Great questions. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yeah. There’s a multiple questions there. One is, there seems to be two events. There’s the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that’s quieter, that has a certain kind of a ministry.
And then there’s the Acts 2: baptism of the Holy Spirit. And if we don’t have that kind of move of the Holy Spirit, the second subsequent baptism, does that say anything about our relationship with the Holy Spirit now?
I think the critical, critical ministry of the Holy Spirit is on the quieter side. It is the conviction of sin. It is the internal guidance of the Holy Spirit. We should be careful not to grieve the Holy Spirit as it says in Ephesians 4.
We should be careful not to quench or put out the fire of the Holy Spirit in 1 Thessalonians 5. So these are things that, if you read the context, it is when we’re sinning all the time, it saddens the Holy Spirit and eventually, almost like it, it puts a muzzle and just quiets and extinguishes the Holy Spirit, which we never want to do.
And Matthew 7 to me is the warning. If we ignore this quiet ministry of the Holy Spirit and we seek out the loud, powerful manifestation of the Holy Spirit, then we run the risk of Matthew 7: being so busy with the supernatural ministry of the Holy Spirit.
And at the end of our lives, Jesus says, who are you? I don’t know you. And we think, how is that possible? How can they minister in the Name of Jesus and cast out demons and do supernatural things and over that whole span of life, miss out on Jesus? It’s a very sobering warning not to miss out on the most primary ministry of the Holy Spirit, which is internal.
So the way I think of it is God whispered to me in my 40s. He said, “When you’re about 60, you’ll have some things that are worth listening to.” And I’m 50, so I got 10 more years of baking in the oven. I don’t know why. To me, it’s like, that’s too slow. There’s a harvest field of people who are dying. Shouldn’t you send me out?
And then God just reminds me, who is more urgent to save the world than him? And so I shouldn’t go ahead of the Spirit and think I can save these people. Think of Peter, if he didn’t have Pentecost and he started doing church. How much effort, how long it would take to gather 3,000 people. And the Holy Spirit does it in one moment. So I should just put my striving and my ideas aside.
Although it kind of comes up here and there like I want to do something for the Lord, but the Lord always tells me, just make sure your heart is in the right place. Make sure your sins are being repented of. Make sure you’re not grieving and quenching the Spirit. Because there’s always going to be ministry. You know, we’re always doing ministry and it’s in various forms, as Sister Sarah said.
But the large-scale ministry that every pastor wants to do, every church wants to be involved in a ministry where you preach one message and 3,000 people flood into the church. Like who, who wouldn’t want that? How exciting that would be. And of course, that’s available, but it’s in God’s time.
I can’t ignore the whispers. And so maybe that’s why he has me in 1 Kings 19. Elijah went through a difficult week, and Jezebel is after him, and now he just needs that low whisper of the Spirit.
And if I harden my heart and I sin over and over, and I keep pushing us, let’s do ministry, let’s do more ministry, and all the while I’m ignoring the whispers of the Spirit, and I’m hardening my heart to sin, and I keep on sinning, and I’m grieving and I’m quenching the Spirit, like in the end we might die of exhaustion at the end of our lives.
Like we’ve done a few things, but if we hear the word, Jesus doesn’t know us. That is, that is the most sobering verse in all of Scripture for me as I try to hold myself back.
Ministry. It will come in time. The harvest fields are there, they are ripe. If we’re not being sent, it’s just not our time. I don’t, I don’t look at that as condemnation. I don’t, I don’t think of myself as a lesser Christian or a less spirit-filled Christian. It’s just not my time. Maybe it’s not our time, but we have ministry to do already.
In this place, just amongst ourselves, if we span out a little bit, there’s a lot of people connected to us besides our family members, extended family. There’s a lot of ministry to be done. There’s a ministry to be done at our schools, in our workplaces. Maybe we don’t have a million YouTube subscribers and doing ministry in that kind of a way, but maybe when I’m 60, we’ll have it. Who knows? Who knows, who knows?
But we just keep in step with the Spirit. It’s just not my time yet. Maybe it’s not our time yet, but we still have ministry to do. Not as impressive. It’s okay. God gets all the glory. We want the big ministry to get glory, perhaps for ourselves. That’s something ministers we all have to repent of.
Like, ministry doesn’t have to be through me. This other minister on YouTube, he has a lot of followers. He’s doing great ministry. We can glorify God that things are happening. It doesn’t have to happen through us. Holy Spirit is moving in other places. We give God glory. you’re doing it. We just wait. It’s just not our time. We wait our turn. We’re still baking in the oven, and so that’s the way I look at it.
Anybody else?
Okay, Let’s close in prayer.
Father, we want to be conservative Charismatics so that when we read Scripture, we don’t strike out or gloss over or ignore verses that we think don’t apply to us anymore. Every verse in Scripture is for today because, Jesus, you never changes. You are the same yesterday, today, forever. And so when we see you ministering by laying hands and healing and casting out demons and performing miracles, we know that this Jesus that we follow is still doing the same ministry today.
Lord, the ministry that we do might not be as impressive as we read in Scripture, but we know it’s possible. We want to be faithful to the measure of the grace and the gift that you’ve given to us. We want to start identifying them and exercising them as a church.
We want to equip the saints for the work of the ministry that comes in various forms, not just a traditional church environment. But there are many different ways that we can minister to you in the marketplace, in our neighborhoods, through our work schedule, skills that we gained from work, through the dreams that you gave to us as little children that we have not seen come to fruition yet.
Lord, we want to be faithful to the whispers of the Holy Spirit that guide us into all truth. Thank you for giving us discernment that those who lean upon you. We see what Satan is doing in this world. So it’s not just spiritual truth; it’s all truth. We see it, Lord. We say we ask for more gifting so that the End Time army can be raised up to do damage against the enemy and to save souls.
We want to start with us and our family members as we read Ephesians 5. Not only do we speak differently to one another, not only do we submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Your promise is we will have a great marriage. We will have a great family. We will be victorious over the enemy. This is for people who ask for the Holy Spirit.
So Lord, increase our thirst for the Holy Spirit. The pouring out of the Holy Spirit, which is living waters. The baptism comes from Jesus. Jesus, you are waiting and looking for people who are thirsty. May we be followers of Christ who are thirsty for more of the Holy Spirit.
What we have now is. Is we’re grateful for what we have. But Lord, we know there’s so much more. We’re thirsty for more. Fill us with the Holy Spirit. Baptize us, immerse us, trench us in the Holy Spirit.
We want to move from Ephesians 4:1 believer to an Ephesians 5 believer. Thank you, Lord. Pour out your spirit into our hearts as we partake in the Lord’s Supper. Thank you for Your Body that was broken for us and Your Blood shed.
Please minister to us as we close out this service. In Jesus’ Name, Amen.