Transcribed by Beluga AI.
Let me read one verse: 1 John 2:27.
27 But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him. (1 John 2:27, ESV)
Let’s pray.
Father, please send the Spirit to us. We are here to learn from one another as the Spirit reveals things to us and points all of us to the person of Jesus Christ.
We pray that Jesus, you would open up eyes and ears, and we would see. See you for who you are. Thank you that you brought us to Yosemite in the midst of all the majestic nature.
We just confess that we are fearfully and wonderfully made. And everything that we see, all the mountains and streams and moon and stars, it shouts praise of your holy name.
We just thank you that in this kind of scenery we know that you are real beyond the shadow of a doubt. Thank you, Lord.
We pray that you would speak to us and speak through one of us, each one of us, as we discuss what you have for us today. Thank you, Lord. In Jesus’ Name, Amen.
I have several questions that I would like for us to wrestle with. First is, where are you with Jesus? And that’s a little bit of a personal question, but if you would like to share that, I think it would be great for us to know how we can pray for each other. Where are you with Jesus? Anybody? Is he close?
Is he far? Is he familiar? Is he a stranger to you? Where are you with Jesus? Anybody? Best friend, Lord, King of kings, the love of your life?
I feel like me, I’m just like, barely getting past the. It’s not a religion. It’s not like a mindset that I can just apply to life and just starting to pray, like as an actual person.
So it’s not saying much, but I feel like it’s taking me a long time to get to a point where I can see, like, the back and forth in my prayers and not have so many, like, thoughts about it.
So, yeah, like, oh, I know what I should pray and I know, like, about Jesus intellectually enough to know, like, what to ask him for. But yeah, it’s like so much more simpler than that. I realize that’s where I’m at. Amen.
Jesus is not a religion or religious figure.
He is a person who lived, died, and resurrected, and we can have a relationship with him even today. Anybody else? If not, we can move to the next question.
Paul was going to say that Jesus has been my refuge this past year especially, and I did pour out my heart a lot because of church issues. And I can’t believe it’s actually chapter. It’s closed. What the hell? So I’ve been distracted a lot, though, by all the negatives. So that’s just my prayer. Jesus has there. I know he’s there, but I’m.
I was so great today. I didn’t have to think about anything about church and people and expectations and just even how it’s looking right now after we left. And so I’m really thankful to God just. Just not being able to. I think he just wants to be me, to be free and not have worries.
So I’m really thankful for him for doing that. But I do feel like a lot of negativity has made him a little bit more distant. So that’s just my personal struggle there. Amen.
Yes, Jesus is our refuge. And as you know, we’re on sabbatical, and the future is unknown. But, yeah, we had our very first Sunday after we got released from the Hill. We had it in Kansas City, a service with Carolyn, which was special.
The second week, it was special visitors, friends from out of town. We had a special service with them. Third service, I was with my brother’s family, my parents in Pismo Beach, and we just attended a church, which was nice for a change. And then now with all of you here at Yosemite.
So it’s been a special month after the Hill. This is special Sunday. Special. Special Sunday, all of you guys. Yeah. Yeah. Amen. Thank you.
Anybody else? I think for me, I think similar to what you’ve been sharing, I think because I knew so much this, it was hard to distinguish saying and doing the things I was taught versus treating God like an actual person.
I think over this past semester, God’s been really simplifying that. And even this, I guess, question of where am I with Jesus?
I think what I’ve been learning is that it doesn’t even matter where I am or how busy I tell myself I am, that if Jesus is there as a person, I should go to him.
I think even, like, church like this, it’s so refreshing to me because I was getting very tired of, like, the circles. I felt like I was going in for, like, going to church, reading my Bible, feel like I’m not going anywhere.
But I think recently I’ve just been talking to Jesus more, more, and I. I’ve seen very clearly, though. How?
I think before, my questions were always like, an issue of God’s kind of existence and then kind of God’s goodness. But then now I don’t have any of those doubts. I think he’s protected me a lot.
I can think of very specific moments in this past year that he’s protected me. And so I think now I’m just learning how to, like, no matter what I’m doing or how busy I am to talk to Jesus, even if I can’t, like, open up my Bible. Amen. Thank you. Amen.
Anybody else? I think Jesus is, for me, I can say he’s a close. Well, I can say he’s a friend. And I do find myself talking with him, more thankful to him directly, but I. I don’t think I could call him a best friend. Amen. Amen. Thank you. Thank you. Amen.
Well, feel free to answer. You can. We can circle back to this question. You can answer these questions out of order.
I have a second and third question I want to group together. Is what is salvation? And related to that, is there any difference between a believer, a Christian, and a disciple?
That’s the main question I want to wrestle with today. What is salvation? And is there a difference between a believer, a Christian, and a disciple?
To answer those two questions, I want to read three verses. Can somebody open up and read James 2:19? James 2:19. This is a verse that will help us wrestle with what is a believer, which is positive or negative.
19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! (James 2:19, ESV)
Okay, and then to answer the question, what is a Christian? Can someone read Matthew 3:2?
And two verses for disciple. Can someone read Luke 9:23?
And someone else read Luke 6:40?
Luke 9:23. And he said to all, if anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.
23 And he said to all, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. (Luke 9:23, ESV)
Okay, and then lastly, Luke 6:40. The disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone, when he’s fully trained, will be like his teacher.
40 A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher. (Luke 6:40, ESV)
Okay, so with those four verses in your thoughts and with the help of the Holy Spirit, can we unpack what is salvation? Is there a difference between a believer, a Christian, and a disciple?
What do you guys think? When someone says, I believe in God, that could be a positive thing. It could be actually nothing or negative, because maybe it’s not what the first person says, I believe in God. Second person, I say, believe in God, but their lives can look so different.
And so, in a simple way, can you just describe, like someone saying, I’m a believer, positive or negative or neutral? I think it’s like you can believe Jesus is real. Yep. Yeah, yeah, you can agree. Yep. And is that salvation? Just agreeing that he’s a real person and I’ve learned a lot about him. Is that salvation?
Well, it says to repent, to be baptized. So if there’s no repentance, there’s no salvation. Okay, okay. So, yeah, let’s tease that out a little bit more.
So someone who says, I believe, but it’s intellectual, but there’s never been a time of repentance slash encounter with Jesus. Someone who says, I believe and it’s intellectual and they don’t have any personal testimony of meeting a man that is described in Scripture, a man named Jesus, and there was a time of repentance as soon as you met him.
Would we say that the mere believer is saved? Intellectual. I believe Jesus is real. Is that person saved? I mean, what James 2 says. Yeah, like the demons believe. So. Yeah, no, but. Right.
It does look like a progression. Okay, okay. Yep. It’s better than like, at least they believe. Okay. And you know the truth.
And the progression is when we get to the Christian and then disciple. Okay, okay. Right, yeah. No belief. Yeah.
So the shocking thing is that James says the demons believe that God is one. Actually, Satan and all of the unclean spirits on his side have perfect theology. They just refuse to repent and to live according to those beliefs. Instead, they are rebellious against it.
So belief by itself doesn’t save because clearly even Satan and the demons believe. So beyond that, there has to be repentance. And I don’t think repentance happens until you first meet Jesus.
So I would argue that mere intellectual belief is maybe a prerequisite, but it’s not salvation. Salvation happens when you meet Jesus experientially and you repent of your sins.
And so. And that’s Matthew 3:2, Repent. That is Jesus’s first words in his public ministry. Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand or near.
And so let’s focus on then from there.
How do we progress from a Christian who is maybe barely saved? How would you distinguish that person from somebody who is an actual disciple?
What did it say in Luke 9:23 and Luke 6:40?
Let’s look at Luke 9:23 first. What do we see? A little bit more than repentance. What else do we see there? Christian comes after Jesus. Yep. Yes. And then there’s other things that happen. Denying ourselves and trying to follow him and obey him. But he actually says, if anyone comes after me.
So I guess it is when we actually start to see Jesus, that’s the transition to becoming a Christian. Yeah. And the desire, the phrasing of coming after someone or following somebody is very relational. And it’s so different from intellectual. Intellectual, you can believe. Oh, this is what a Christian does. A disciple has met a man, and now for the rest of his or her days, they are chasing after and following this person. And that is, I mean, it’s a heaven, heaven and hell difference. We go beyond just an intellectual belief.
We meet somebody and we repent. And because we were going a certain direction on our own, and then we meet Jesus and then everything changes. And we say, I’m no longer living life the way I want to live it. Now it’s like, Jesus, where are you taking my life? What do you want to do with my life?
It is a fundamental shift that only a Christian can even begin to think about. And a Christian who is. Who is transitioning to a disciple. To me. What’s one word you would use to describe Luke 9:23?
What’s a popular Christian word that you may have heard in churches that describes this transformation of a Christian turning into a disciple? Sanctification. Yeah. Sanctification. Yeah. Sounds like follower. Follower. Yeah. Oh, something that way. Yeah. Follower, yeah.
There’s a word in your mind, right? Thinking of. Okay. I mean, it’s all related. I would say surrender. Oh. Like I. I used to be the Lord of my life. I used to have plans and goals and agendas. Now I meet Jesus, and now I’m following him.
And so whatever dreams, desires, or plans I had, it all goes out the window. I give Jesus a blank canvas. Now I’m following him, and day by day, he tells me, this is what you should do.
I never thought I’d be in this season where I would step away from pastoral ministry and not know what next Sunday would look like. It was never part of my calculation, but to the best of my ability, I’m following a person who spoke loud and clear.
He’s leading me to green pastures, still waters, and I just have to follow him. And nobody else has to validate that, or I can’t explain it. It’s just he spoke. And I’m now following him.
I don’t know what a week, month, or one year looks like, but to the best of my ability, my life is not my own. Jesus bought me by dying on a cross. He purchased my life, and now he’s my master, he’s my Lord. And we are doing our best to follow. So surrender.
So from a believer transitioning to a Christian, there’s repentance, there’s surrender, and then Luke 6:40. What is the final destination of a disciple?
40 A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher. (Luke 6:40, ESV)
Yes. So attending church for 50 years and dying doesn’t. Could actually mean nothing. The point of Christian life is the longer we fellowship with this man named Jesus and we do what he says. And he is my teacher and he is my coach.
And I’m trained the way I should be trained because I’m just a student. That’s what a disciple is. Then 50 years later, I should look very much like him. And if I’m not looking more like him, then I’m not a disciple. Maybe I’m a Christian, barely saved, but if I don’t look more and more like him, then can I call myself a disciple? I don’t think I can. So this is my final question.
In what ways do you and I need to mature and be like Jesus and just highlight some qualities of Jesus that you say? I want to be like that. If I’m fully trained, I will be just like him. And in this area, can we?
Can we just share a few qualities of Jesus or characteristics or actions or something you see in Jesus that you say I want? I want to be trained up to be just like Jesus?
Selflessness. Yes. Oh, yeah. Selflessness, humility. That was on my list. Anybody else? I have so many.
I have so many. But one of the big ones, well, Jesus didn’t. He was accused, and he was misunderstood, and he was attributed wrong motives, and he was just totally misunderstood. And he didn’t. He didn’t get swayed by that or affected by that. And to the end, he’s like, forgive the people that they don’t know what they’re doing.
So he’s loving, but he’s not like a doormat and just saying yes to everything and just letting everybody take advantage of him. He literally is so firm, and he doesn’t.
He just doesn’t care what people think, and he doesn’t care that people understand him. Although he, I think, he’d hope that his disciples and closest could understand him, but he’s not affected by that.
Yeah. So that’s like one of the things that I need to really—I’m praying God will change me. Because I just really want to be understood by people I thought were close. And they turn out they’re not understanding. They don’t know what we’re doing. And then they attribute these weird things and, yeah, I just keep getting swayed by that.
And then even like with our. Yeah. So anyway. Yeah. That’s something I want to. I want to have thicker skin and be just more confident in what God has told me to do. And God has told us to do and not get swayed easily by people like hecklers. Yeah.
Actually, Matthew 10:24-25 is the same idea of a decent disciple. Fully trained, will be like his teacher. That’s in the context of Jesus being persecuted. And he says, you are not above your Master, so expect persecution. So I would say equality. You said it right.
Thicker skin. I pray that often for myself to have thick skin. Yeah. Anything else? Selflessness, humility, thick skin. What else?
There’s a little different. I think I saw how Jesus, his prayer life fell. Yeah. Always find times to leave his meaningful work to prioritize his own time with God. And I think I saw the same with a lot of the people in Genesis. Yeah. And I think that’s something that I like, which is like seeking out a place to be alone with God. It’s really hard to do that sometimes for some reason. Yeah.
Jesus, even as the Son of God, he prayed all night before selecting 12 disciples. And you think, why can’t you just do it? you’re God. And yet he somehow exemplifies this humility, this seeking of intimacy with the Father.
And I don’t think it’s possible to say, I am a mature disciple and I only pray five minutes a week. It just can’t happen. So prayer life, I also have that. Anything else? Or I guess this question you want to go across. So I don’t know if that’s like, yeah, self-control or. Yeah.
I don’t know. Yeah. He says he was. Philippians 2. He was fully obedient to the Father, even though he didn’t want to go there out of a heart of obedience.
So that’s that. I have that as well. Obedience. Whatever. Jesus says we do it, even if it doesn’t make sense. Yeah. Maybe he’s also talking more about, like, fleshly flesh. Self-control. Meaning. I agree that’s good. Yeah. But I agree with. That’s something I needed. That’s also too if, like, denying and denying flesh. What my emotions are telling me about right now versus. Okay.
Denying of flesh. Denying of self. Yep. What else? Anything else? I also have a lot. Yeah, yeah, fix them. But I feel like the main ones are joy. Joy. Okay.
He’s or Jesus is like an example of having joy even though his entire life he knew what he was heading towards. It was very short life and kind of in the same line as well.
I was reading Psalms, and it says joyful are people of integrity. So in line with like not being so religious.
I think a lot of the time it’s because I’m just not honest with myself about where I’m actually at. Because I just like feeling like I’m good.
And so being someone who’s honest and also righteous, like someone who makes the right decisions that are good and not like for myself, but that are just the right thing to do. And a lot of times I feel like I do things out of what I think is best for myself.
And in the past, I’ve seen it hurt other people. And. Yeah. So I just want to be righteous.
Yeah. I had, I had. Jesus is sinless. And so as we mature in our discipleship, we’ll never achieve sinlessness. But obviously, the patterns of sin should break, and we should look more and more like Jesus in terms of righteousness.
And we can’t say I’m a mature disciple and I’m still sinning the way I was for the last few decades, addicted to things. Jesus came to break the power of Satan in our lives. And so sinlessness. I have joy is good. I have one major one that hasn’t been mentioned yet. I have one. Yes.
Something I’m learning is just being honest with God. Because there’s nothing hidden. Everything that I think of, everything I do, everything I will do, he already knows. He just wants to hear from me.
But it’s just being honest with myself, honest with God. Because in Mark 14:36, when he was in the garden, he said, please take this cup away from me as long suffer. He knows he needs to do that. So just being honest. Yep, yep. Yeah. Being honest. Yeah. Jesus showed honesty in his prayers for sure. Yeah, that’s good.
Is there one major one we might be missing? Patience.
Love. We should be growing in love. We should be growing in love. Love for the outcast. Love for sinners. Love for people who are not sanctified. Love for immature people. Love for non-Christians who drive us crazy. Patience is definitely a side of love.
Yeah. We should be growing in humility. Love. Our prayer life should increase. Our obedience should increase, denying of flesh, breaking patterns of sin.
Oh, one more, one more. Is it being faithful or consistent? I think Jesus was very consistent.
I don’t think he let a day go by when he didn’t pray, when he didn’t. Yeah, there’s certain things you’re not going to catch Jesus on. Having a bad day. Very faithful, very consistent, even keel. Always willing to serve, ready to serve.
So these are just some of the big categories. And as we transition from a believer, which doesn’t save, to meeting Jesus maybe for the first time, repenting and surrendering your life. And a lot of times that’s where it stops. And then you just start serving in church.
But a disciple is somebody who consistently follows a person named Jesus. And he is the teacher. And if we are students, then he’s gonna train us in very specific areas.
So pray about it and ask Jesus what is the specific area as I end this year that he wants me to grow in going into next year. And then after you grow in that area, he will have the next thing that he wants you to grow in.
Over time, hopefully you and I become mature disciples who look just like Jesus. Okay, let’s pray.
Father, we just thank you for everybody here. We thank you for just honest sharing and the vulnerability and just the fact that you meet us where we are in our spiritual journey.
We pray that you continue to transition us from just an intellectual believer to an actual Christian who repents and surrenders his or her life to you and begins following you. And we do this each day. We deny ourselves each day. We take up a cross each day. We follow you each day.
And if we do this over a lifetime, a disciple will become fully mature, looking just like the master, Jesus Christ.
We thank you. We pray, Jesus, that you would give specific instructions to each of us of how you want us to grow in the new year. Thank you, Lord. In Jesus’ Name we pray, Amen.